New Logo for CMSimple_XH

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cmb
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by cmb » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:38 pm

Hallo Gert,
Gert wrote:hehe, wir können ja schon wieder frozzeln, ohne die Messer zu wetzen ;)
Ist halt ein bisschen wie mit dem Wetter: das Gewitter zieht schnell auf, und dann ist auch bald wieder Sonnenschein. :)
Gert wrote:Das Problem scheint zu sein, dass noch nicht jeder Beteiligte im vollen Umfang verstanden hat, was da Anfang November passiert ist.
Ich denke, ich habe das schon verstanden: Du hast alle Rechte an CMSimple von Peter übernommen. So wie vorher Peter wegen entsprechender Punkte um Erlaubnis/Einverständnis gefragt werden musste, bist nun eben Du das. Und Deine Aussage aus dem benannten Thread lege ich auch nicht auf die Goldwaage. Dass nun CMSimple_XH das Logo nutzen wollte, war damals wohl wirklich niemandem in den Sinn gekommen. Und wenn Dich diese Idee nun etwas überrumpelt, dann ist das sicher kein Problem; es muss ja nicht auf die Schnelle entschieden werden, ob "wir" das Logo überhaupt wollen bzw. ob wir es verwenden dürfen. Da kann ruhig mal ein paar Nächte drüber geschlafen werden. Wenn Du es Dir also noch mal anders überlegst, dann ist das für mich in Ordnung -- obwohl mir persönlich Tatas Entwurf ganz gut gefällt (auch der jüngste mit dem "XH").
Gert wrote:Ich selbst verwende es nicht, weil ich den Neuanfang klar dokumentieren will. Das alte Logo könnte assoziiert werden mit dem guten alten "Volks-CMS", das eigentlich keine Plugins mag und auf die Webstandards pfeift,
Ob Du das Logo verwenden willst ist selbstverständlich Deine Entscheidung. Und ja, CMSimple "classic" mag keine Plugins. Auch wenn CMSimple "classic" 2 (?) mal mit Pluginloader ausgeliefert wurde, wurde dieser ja gleich beim nächsten (?) Release wieder entfernt (konkret aus unterschiedlichen Gründen, aber letztlich wohl wirklich, weil's da einfach nicht gepasst hat). Allerdings würde ich nicht behaupten, dass CMSimple "classic" auf Webstandards pfeift: immerhin scheint schon 2.5 valides XHTML auszuliefern, wenn man xhtml_endtags korrekt einstellt. Das Problem liegt wohl eher beim Pluginloader und den Plugins, die etwas eigene Vorstellungen hatten, was nun richtig ist.
Gert wrote:
cmb wrote:Und alles nur für drei Striche und einen Bogen
Naja, wenn ich daran denke, welch teure Prozesse es in der letzten Zeit um einen Apfel gegeben hat :lol:
Und dazu noch einen angefressenen! ;) Was mich am meisten wundert ist, dass es da noch keinen Rechtsstreit zwischen den Beach Boys und Apple wegen "Surfin' Safari" gegeben hat...

Christoph
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

Gert
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by Gert » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:51 pm

cmb wrote:Wenn Du es Dir also noch mal anders überlegst, dann ist das für mich in Ordnung ...
... aber dann würde ich mir wohl selbst blöd vorkommen ;)
cmb wrote:Allerdings würde ich nicht behaupten, dass CMSimple "classic" auf Webstandards pfeift: immerhin scheint schon 2.5 valides XHTML auszuliefern
Jo, auf der Startseite und mit dem Standard Content.

Ansonsten:

- oEdit und Bilder (alt Attribut)
- nicht maskierte "&" in Links (ich weiss gar nicht mehr, wo, ich glaube das war der printlink oder mailform link)

... und natürlich, dass das in keinem der Foren ein Thema war. <edit>Und auch die Plugin Entwickler haben wir erst in den letzten Jahren für dieses Thema sensibilisiert, das aber schon unter dem Markenzeichen "XH"</edit>

Heute fragt ein Anwender von 2.5, wie er seine Seite valide bekommt. Solche Fragen gab es 2008 einfach nicht. Es war kein Thema bei CMSimple,

nun aber gute Nacht - Gert
Gert Ebersbach | CMSimple | Templates - Plugins - Services

cmb
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by cmb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:16 am

Gert wrote:Ansonsten:

- oEdit und Bilder (alt Attribut)
- nicht maskierte "&" in Links (ich weiss gar nicht mehr, wo, ich glaube das war der printlink oder mailform link)
Ja, da hast Du allerdings recht! Wobei man ersteres zumindest mit dem Codeeditor_XH auch verbuchseln kann, und zweiteres zumindest bei XH im Back-End auch nicht so ganz stimmt.
Gert wrote:Solche Fragen gab es 2008 einfach nicht. Es war kein Thema bei CMSimple,
Da stand halt mehr "Hauptsache es funktioniert" im Vordergrund. Und das tut's bei vielen anderen noch heute: Aber zum Glück nicht bei allen: Ich mach für "heute" auch mal Schluß.
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

svasti
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by svasti » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:16 am

Just some ideas:

As the name of the beast is CMSimple_XH, I think this should be clearly visible in the logo. Thus I think oldnema's logo with CMSImpleXH (without the "_") won't do.

The old logo seems to be an OK mark with 2 extra lines.
I use a modified version on my download pages:

[ external image ]

However to me it doesn't specially express the idea of "simplicity". So if somebody finds something better, why not?

I'd propose either
  • a Joomla-style logo, i.e. some grafic design + rather standard lettering CMSimple_XH or
  • a Coca-Cola-style logo, i.e. fancy but easily readable lettering CMSImple_XH
svasti

Tata
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by Tata » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:52 pm

Reading some manuals and books from my UNI times I have found following:
A firm, product, event activity symbol may include: graphic and/or text so that both of them are signifficant to the very subject.
Additional information (if attached) shall be added in its importance adequate form and quality, not suppressing the value of the main text or symbol.

Possible general combinations are:
Graphic only, Graphic + Text, Graphic + graphically shaped text, Text only, graphically shaped text only
Extended combinations are:
Graphic only, Graphic + Text, Graphic + graphically shaped text, Text only, graphically shaped text only
Additional information (date, vintage, model, serie, version a.o.)

Global sign shall respect the design of the space it is placed to, and all parts may be styled to match the entire design (posters, banners, covers, badges, souveneers, marks, logos, businesscards etc.). Used in combination, there is mandatory use of a symbol, text or graphically shaped text. Additional parts are optional as long as there is only one firm, product, event, activity in concern and there is no doubt to which the global sign belongs. If there are more firms, products, events, activities in mind, additional informational part is mandatory (date, vintage, model, serie, version a.o.).


In this term I am not sure wether we have:
Two separate products with their own names: CMSimple and CMSimple_XH - where each of them has its full rights to shape its existence and presentation its own way (two independent genealogy trees)
One product with its descents: CMSimple and - CMSimple 4, CMSimple_XH 1.6, CMSimple_XH_ME, CMSimple_SE, CMSimple_LE - where each of descents shall keep all mandatory requirements of the ancestor (one continuing genealogy tree)

My understanding is (maybe wrong analogy):

[ external image ]

The "Last Name" here shall be the mandatory part of any recent and future generation of CMSimple. This must be mandatory extended at least by its Middle Name in one of possible ways (mentioned above). Use of the First name is fully optional and depends on specific reason. So if introduced, everyone will know which family line it belongs to.
Please, explain me what's wrong in my understanding.
CMSimple.sk
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cmb
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by cmb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:56 pm

Tata wrote:In this term I am not sure wether we have:
Two separate products with their own names: CMSimple and CMSimple_XH - where each of them has its full rights to shape its existence and presentation its own way (two independent genealogy trees)
One product with its descents: CMSimple and - CMSimple 4, CMSimple_XH 1.6, CMSimple_XH_ME, CMSimple_SE, CMSimple_LE - where each of descents shall keep all mandatory requirements of the ancestor (one continuing genealogy tree)
From a legal point of view, the situation is actually more complex. To simplify: the classic CMSimple (currently Versions up to 3.4) are the property of Gert; he is the legal copyright holder of it, and can do with it, what he wants. CMSimple_XH, CMSimple_ME, and all other variants published under GPL, incl. CMSimple 4 are covered by the GPL (as they are forks of the GPL version of "classic" CMSimple). This means for example, that anybody is free to distribute a (modified or unmodified) variant under any name he likes, as long as he sticks with GPL (or a compatible license), and the name is not protected otherwise (e.g. calling it Joomla! is not allowed). The GPL doesn't allow to make further restrictions, for example that the name or a logo has to be kept. So at least nobody can enforce a common logo. In this sense all these variants have to be regarded as separate products.

Gert could allow others some rights regarding the "classic" CMSimple, for example to distribute a modified version of CMSimple 3.4. Then he could place restrictions on this version as he likes. He could even distribute CMSimple 3.4 as proprietory software ("payware"). But even he is not allowed to distribute anything based on CMSimple_XH under a proprietory license as this would be a violation of the GPL.

Regarding the logo: as this is protected by copyright law and Gert is the copyright holder, nobody may just use it ("copyright infringement"). So one has to ask Gert, whether he may use it, and Gert is free to place any restrictions on this use.

IANAL.
Christoph M. Becker – Plugins for CMSimple_XH

Tata
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by Tata » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:26 pm

I understand so far. But concerning to the logo of CMSimple_XH:
Is it entirely on CMSimple_XH community what logo (if any) will be used and what will it look like?
Are there possible restrictions as to which part of the logo shall look like and where shall this be placed (especially the "_XH")?
Here I assume that the "3 stripes and the bow" are owned by Gert with his full rights or any further approvals as they are probably registered with CMSimple.
But - if I got it right - the "_XH" may freely define its own logotyp and use it the way the community decides, right?

Other way to say - if the "_XH" will use the old logo, it can only be used with Gert's approval and following the rules, Gert will declare. If a new logo will be introduced, it can be shaped whatever way.
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by Gert » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:44 pm

Tata wrote:But - if I got it right - the "_XH" may freely define its own logotyp and use it the way the community decides, right?

Other way to say - if the "_XH" will use the old logo, it can only be used with Gert's approval and following the rules, Gert will declare. If a new logo will be introduced, it can be shaped whatever way.
Yes, but not with the single word "CMSimple", it has to be "CMSimple_XH" or "CMSimple_Anything" (that's allowed by me), or another name without "CMSimple" (that's possible under GPL),

Gert
Gert Ebersbach | CMSimple | Templates - Plugins - Services

oldnema
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by oldnema » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:05 pm

Or something like that?

[ external image ]

Josef
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twc
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Re: New Logo for CMSimple_XH

Post by twc » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:36 pm

i like it a lot fresh and modern, so i add it to my script ;)

http://fiberdordrecht.nl/share/

[ external image ]

oldnema wrote:Or something like that?


Josef

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